Thanks to Frank and Sasha, everyone stand up and applaud real loud! I followed Franks directions and got a log to Sasha with the bugs I'd reported here. Sasha fixed both of them already! I didn't even try to look at the logs, they were in the megabytes of data (but compressed down to a few hundred kbytes, so there must be a lot of common crap in there!) Pretty impressive that you guys can dig thru all of it and find enough info to figure out what the bugs were. Take a big bow you guys. Thanks! Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike _______________________________________________ The AfterStep Window Manager for X User's Mailing List http://mail.afterstep.org/mailman/listinfo/as-users